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I'm so glad you segwayed your work on Android because I've wondered if a rooted Android device can run a custom kernel (e.g. grsecurity3.4.x that includes the advances by Google with Android due to the Linux3.4 changelog or announcement). If it is possible to run grsecurity on Android I wouldn't mind getting that $50 APC neoITX that only officially supports Android (generic kernel at least).

Having no case is kind of a bummer, but it doesn't have to be if I just Liquipel(.com) it! The heat shouldn't be a problem that I know of either because I'm not going to touch it and I'm more concerned about the efficiency, though the APC is probably the least efficient (4W idle-13.5W load?) of the three options I mentioned, but still much better than what I have now. If you did choose to base off of Android, would you support the VIA i686 in the $50 APC that I may choose? How about the MK802 $100 one that also comes preloaded with Android?

64 bit is a great step in the right direction with your OpenSuse distro NetSecL, congratulations  B) !

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-05 05:24:43)

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What are your thoughts on the UEFI Secure Boot that Microsoft is going to use to make money off of Linux users whom want to install a different operating system than Windows by charging distro makers for a key to bypass the boot manager's lock down for Windows exclusivity on PCs? Are you going to pay Microsoft $100 to let people install NetSecL on Windows 8 machines, or are you going to distribute with or recommend machines that don't come with Windows preinstalled (e.g. APC, Raspberry Pi, Cotton Candy, MK802, etc.)?

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I've now completed reading the Linux Foundation's recommendations in order to provide open access for third-party OSes, that you sent. The problem is that it is only a recommendation for vendors to ship their UEFI Secure Boot featured Windows 8 PCs in setup mode, which is not guaranteed. Otherwise, you, as an OS vendor, will have to pay Microsoft to sign up for a key in the central database because the certificate authority is currently not planned on being a 3rd party in hardware and OS vendor terms, but is going to be controlled by Microsoft as the first party. That is why Ubuntu and Fedora are paying Microsoft for platform owners to be able to install their respective OS as recognized by the UEFI key database that Microsoft owns. I have not yet heard of OpenSuse dealing such a bargain. I think it is only $100 anyway.

As you remarked, "Having the project free is the point of freeware and opensource," I assume you would rather just recommend the installation on devices that won't come with Windows 8 and UEFI preloaded if you don't want to pay the $100. In addition to the list of PCs that do not come with it preloaded there is also another hardware vendor that ships computers (e.g. regular laptops, full sized desktops, and servers) without Microsoft (i.e. system76.com). Anyway, just trying to help you with ideas on how you don't have to pay Microsoft while keeping NetSecL afloat.

"Configurations are quite different for the kernel on different ARM devices." I'm curious, is that why OS distros support a limited range of hardware architectures? Is the only reason why Gentoo supports all architectures because Gentoo users are expected to configure their own kernel? Anyway, let me know if you need help configuring with whichever PC I end up buying for the Android release of NetSecL down the road, if I can help smile . Any guess as to when your new OpenSuse release will be available for me to try?

Last edited by tau (2012-07-09 23:32:11)

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-10 00:21:40)

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Well, release date - I will try until the end of the month or begining of next. I want to be sure everything works OK, I don't like to relase untested versions. I will look into what you are saying. I find that it is a bit strange that they will make you pay for anything at all, but I am sure that if this is the case OpenSuSe will not leave that this way - as far as I know such major vendors have agreements between them - something I and you don't know for sure. I personally like to assembel my own configurations. I would like to see what actually should mean to have UEFI preloaded and test NetSecL on such a system - if you have a system like that, please let me know.

Gentoo's concept is really different - it was also much popular in the past than now, I remember that every second person was runing it. It depends on what you actually want better performance, but a sacrifice of time to build or having a generic system that works. And yes not to forget specially customized by you and for you wink

BTW shipping hardware with NetSecL is a great idea, if what you actually say is true - I would rather do that or talk to vendors of hardware that would like to ship it.

Thank you for the tips,
Yuriy

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-11 08:49:37)

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Okay, I read that first link of the group and it seems like you're saying NetSecL will use the option to disable UEFI that Microsoft will provide for x86 machines and because most ARM devices will not have Windows 8 on them--at least because there are no ARM devices with Windows 8 yet because that will basically be Microsoft's first iteration of an OS that will support ARM--there are plenty of ARM devices to choose from that do not have UEFI, particularly all the Android and iOS devices, for loading a Linux OS (e.g. NetSecL). The part about Windows 8 allowing an option to disable UEFI for some devices makes my fears go away. But, because Windows 8 will not provide the option to disable UEFI for ARM devices--at least not from what it said in the link I read--you are still planning on getting NetSecL to ship with hardware, at least for the Android version of NetSecL on ARM devices, which are shipped a lot with Android as well.

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Well as I said in some of this articles - there is a way how to boot the system on 64 bit machines and currently NetSecL is 64 bit - and I will test NetSecL 64 bit with the UEFI enabled in VM. I will experiment on ARM let see what happens - maybe it will be more successful using linux image trough vnc client on android - I saw this with Ubuntu and actually will try this first to see how the did it exactly, there are tricky parts in this like the touchscreen will it work or it won't.

About the hardware we met with Milen we discussed a bit and what we can do (financial reasons) is make a preorder to see the number of users that might want to use hardware with NetSecL. There is also an idea having NetSecL on Flash USBs. I am not sure if this will work aspecialy with the logistics - sending of the goods. We would like to have that automated as much as possible.

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-13 23:20:13)

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First off, about your last post and Android's touchscreen portability. If you are worried about Android's support for a mouse I don't think you have to worry because I've read not only has Android supported mice since 2.2 if I remember the exact number, but it actually always supported mice before 2.2 when they announced it as supported.

Back to the current conversation. Oh yeah, we're making a list and checkin' it twice; nice find there with the ktt30. Let me know when you hear about a 64-bit ARM device like that. I'd be willing to pay a few times more than the neo-ITX for one.

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I read some articles about the plans on ARM 64 seems it is not the same as x86_64, but porting will be much easier according to the articles - which I hope means that there will be Linuxes supporting it in future, sounds good.

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-18 00:46:27)

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Sounds confusing "devices for users", since all devices are for users big_smile. I would say they are being a bit of pre-cautious on what exactly they are going to support.

Well about Linux Questions I wrote them to open a subforum since it seems it  is impossible to do that from the user I have there, unfortunately no reply yet. OSdisc well have in mind I don't get anything out of their profits smile, but 6 $ are ok I guess having in mind that they ship it to you.

Paying the domain is least of problems (although it has to be paid), if we had more active users like you and form a community it would be the best non-material profit smile

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-18 23:02:00)

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-21 03:10:42)

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>I wonder if it is related to deleting most of my message after I initially submit my messages?

So is it better now - I changed some stuff before?

I will try posting again in Wikipedia although I had a page on the distribution and it was deleted for the reason they thought it is an advertisement - when I wrote to them explaining my point of view I didn't get a reply. I will try again.

Yes my observations are that it will be around $250 the cheapest ARM hardware.

I looked at 0install it seems to be possible to integrate with OpenSuse without worries smile.

OpenBSD vs GrSecurity - not exactly sure if it is right to compare both. I think both have their bright sides and glitches.

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Last edited by tau (2012-07-29 22:37:32)

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About the message cutting - I'll do some tests and see what exactly the problem is and talk to Milen, I guess it is time related again smile.

About Wikipedia lets see, it will take some time to produce something with quality and that they won't treat as an advertisment - I don't mind rejecting my article, but their explanation of what should be done and how is not exactly helping me, in my opinion it was easier to post in the past - I guess they changed alot of policies trough time.